Episode 245: Choosing Your Next Bike with Chris Soden of IOG Bike Fitting
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Chris Soden of IOG Bike Fitting
It’s that time of the year. It’s the end of the racing season and the holidays are approaching quickly. Now is the time you might be considering upgrading your equipment, whether by adding on to your favorite frame or buying a brand-new bike altogether.
The blizzard of information, potential or promised benefits, and the wide range of products on the market can leave you confused or frustrated with a purchase that simply isn’t right for you.
Today on the Purple Patch Podcast, Ironman Master Coach Matt Dixon welcomes Chris Soden of IOG Bike Fitting to the show. With over 25 years in the cycling industry and an extensive background as a professional bike fitter and industry consultant, Chris shares his in-depth knowledge of custom and high-end bike sales and fittings to help you wade through some of the difficult decisions athletes and fitness enthusiasts of all levels face when considering a bike upgrade.
Matt and Chris discuss five key elements and tips if you are contemplating or considering either upgrading your bike, buying a brand new bike, or even thinking about getting a used bike, as well as how you can avoid many of the pitfalls of a new purchase to make sure that you’re investing in the right place.
Topics Matt and Chris cover include:
Making the Right Choice: What to consider when choosing a new bike
(10:54) "As much as possible, what I try to get people to do is to actually look internally. We all want to watch what athletes just won a race and what athlete is on some new fun products, but really...look internally and be honest with the riding that you're going to do." - Chris Soden
Common Mistakes: Elements that lead to a bad fit
Best Investment For Your Return: Where to save money and where to spend
(23:57) "As with many things in life, audio equipment, and cooking gear, whatever it is, you get to a point where you start spending cubic dollars for kind of marginal gains. And for some athletes, those marginal gains are the make or break." - Chris Soden
Saddle Choice: The importance of getting it right
(27:06) You can fidget with everything else. If you don't have your saddle dialed in, if your saddle isn't a seven or an eight out of a 1 to 10 scale, frankly, you're just going to be spinning your wheels." - Chris Soden
Going Faster: Worthwhile investments for improving speed
Used Bikes: The pros and cons of second-hand rides
(35:01) So right off the bat, we're not buying the thing that we have the chance to buy new. We're buying this thing that's been altered, changed, and edited...And my question is always, does this bike allow proper bike fit." - Chris Soden
The IOG Experience: How to access a good fit with Chris, Ivan, and the team at IOG Bike Fitting
(50:09) "We've certainly helped people with new bikes, we've certainly helped people that they've progressed into different products or asked about certain upgrades. And I think the end results for us have been just a continual affirmation that this information and this expertise is very, very valuable. It's very welcome, and we're happy to be a part of it." - Chris Soden
If you wish to connect with Chris and Ivan for consultations and more advice, simply email info@purplepatchfitness.com and we will connect you to the IOG team. Also, be sure to mention the referral from the Purple Patch Podcast.
Episode Timestamps
00:00 - 04:59 - Welcome and Episode Introduction
05:06 - 54:05 - The Meat and Potatoes - Episode 245: Choosing Your Next Bike with Chris Soden of IOG Bike Fitting
Purple Patch Video Podcast and More
IOG Bike Fitting and Consulting Through Purple Patch Fitness
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Full Transcript
Matt Dixon 00:00
I'm Matt Dixon and welcome to the Purple Patch podcast. The mission of Purple Patch is to empower and educate every human being to reach their athletic potential. Through the lens of athletic potential, you reach your human potential. The purpose of this podcast is to help time-starved people everywhere integrate sport into life.
Matt Dixon 00:20
Today's show is a cracker. But before we get going, I want to tell you a little bit about the time that we're in right now. Because it's a wonderful time for you to pause, reflect a little bit take stock, and start to chart your journey of performance ahead for next year. And a big part of doing that it's very timely is to actually take a little look in sight. And that's why we partner with InsideTracker. By looking at your biometrics, we can assess the good, the bad, the ugly, but most importantly, the areas that you should focus on to improve your platform of health. And that is essential for your evolving your performance, whether you're chasing a World Championships, or simply looking to have better energy throughout the day. And so all you have to do, you don't need to be a Purple Patch athlete to participate, all you need to do is head to insidetracker.com/purple patch, go there, look at the suite of services they offer. And it is your first step. Oh, and we also have a nice code for you. Purple Patch Pro two zero, that's Purple Patch pro 20, you get 20% off everything at the store. Insidetracker.com/purple patch. All very simple. It's a great time of the year. And of course, you get trackable results because by doing multiple assessments over the course of your next year, you can ensure that you're staying on track and getting the most out of your hard work that you're investing. All right, enjoy today's show.
Matt Dixon 01:53
And welcome to the Purple Patch podcast. As ever, your host, Matt Dixon. And this week, we talk all about getting a new bike, it is the time of the year, the holidays are coming, the seasons of racing, ending and they start to emerge. And a lot of folks out there are thinking, maybe it's time for an upgrade, either adding on to your favorite frame or of course, buying a brand new bike. And I thought You know what, this is a blizzard of confusion for so many athletes. And I see so many people going out and buying that pearly beautiful, bright, shiny bike and end up getting frustrated because it's not the right bike for them. And so I asked Chris Soden from IOG Bike Fitting our partner here at the facility Purple Patch Performance Center here in San Francisco to join me. And I said, Chris, we understand appreciate the value of bike fitting. What I want to do is have you on the show and get really granular. I want to give five key elements and tips to people that are contemplating or considering either upgrading their bike, maybe buying a brand new bike, or even thinking about getting a used bike, and how can they avoid many of the pitfalls and make sure that they're investing in the right place? I've got five questions for you, Chris, will you come on the show? And of course, Chris in the man that he is said I will be delighted to, and what emerged out of this was a fantastic conversation which I think you'll find both very interesting, insightful, and really helpful if you're going on for a purchase. So who is Chris Soden? Well, Chris is one of a two-part team. Ivan O'Gorman, the founder, Chris, his partner at IOG Bike Fitting based out of Boulder, Colorado, one of the meccas of triathlon. But they are also the proud owners of their satellite suite here at the Purple Patch Performance Center in San Francisco. And so in person, you can work with Ivan or Chris, both in Boulder or of course here in San Francisco. They have worked with many of the world's greatest endurance athletes, countless Tour de France, cyclists, and Olympic champions world champions in Ironman and the list goes on and on. In fact, many fan favorites Sam long, Lionel Sanders, Flora Duffy, Chelsea Sodaro, Sam Appleton, and the list goes on. And it even includes me. Yes, I count Chris as my sidekick, my best supporter in everything that I do with bicycles because I'm not the smartest when it comes to that stuff. Anyway, what emerged today was an I thought fantastically interesting conversation. I think you're going to enjoy it. We're going to strip out Word of the Week. We're not going to do Matt's News-ings. We're going to dive right into The Meat and Potatoes. I give you Chris Soden and it's all about buying a new bicycle or upgrading your current bike. I give you, Barry, The Meat and Potatoes.
Matt Dixon 05:06
All right, it is The Meat and Potatoes. And today we've got some fine meat with us. We are so lucky to be joined by Chris Soden of IOG bike fitting. Chris, thanks so much for joining us today.
Chris Soden 05:20
Matt, it is my pleasure as always, and I won't take that personally.
Matt Dixon 05:23
So, for you guys listening that don't know, either Chris, IOG, or Ivan O'Gorman bike fitting originally, partners of Purple Patch, you guys are based in Boulder, Colorado. You also have, of course, your satellite office where you were just with us last week here at the Purple Patch Performance Center in San Francisco. So obviously a wonderful resource, your accolades of who you have worked with and consulted within the world of cycling and triathlon, a longer than my arm, I'll just name a few, obviously a host of professional cyclists, including many that have gone to the Tour de France, and most recent Ironman World Champion Chelsea Sedaro, Sam Appleton Lionel Sanders, Sam Long, Flora Duffy, the Olympic gold medalist, even Pat Romano, Purple Patch athlete, and legendary sadist. And I will point out as we'll probably get into a little bit today, little me. And so your - your expertise at the very pointy end of the sport is extensive, but I think it's also important to work out and one of the reasons that we really love partnering with you is your great expertise across people all the way down the scale to noncompetitive people that are maybe just getting into bike riding. And I think that I can put words in your mouth, maybe, but really helping people enjoy their bicycles more, as much as it is just finding that enth of a degree and aerodynamic advantage. So So you definitely work with the whole gamut of people that enjoy two wheels, wouldn't you say?
Chris Soden 06:55
Absolutely. And I think one of the things that we continually talk about internally is how many, I think a lot of us, a lot of us fans of the sport, fans of these athletes, we tend to put them on a pedestal and we assume they don't hurt or they don't have issues on the bike or they don't enjoy their saddle. And the matter is, I think people would be shocked at how many parallels that are, are to the standard athlete, just the person who's just trying to do this for fun. Last night, I had an online consult with a client, who had we worked with on this existing bike, and unfortunately launched off the back of his car and broke into a bunch of pieces. And here he is trying to have to go to the marketplace find something new because he has races coming up. And the funny thing is, it's exactly the same protocol, obviously different numbers, different kinds of angles, but the result is the same. And I think that's one of the fun parts about it. And frankly, you know, we take it, we take it just as seriously because our athletes do. They're spending their hard-earned money and time in a sport that they love. And the least we can do is be attentive in that space.
Matt Dixon 08:02
Absolutely. Well, what we wanted to do today is to take a little bit of an opportunity, not just rip apart, bike fitting, and talk about the process, etc. But it is the time where there are a host of folks that are really interested in navigating what I identify as an absolute minefield of purchasing a new bike. And I feel like as a coach, it's very, very easy for folks that are thinking about either upgrading components on their bike or going out and getting a brand new bike purchase, or as I'm going to ask you about later today buying a used bike that they get really drawn by the bright, shiny aspects of the components, looking for more speed faster elements. What's the latest pro that's the topic as you're riding, and maybe I should just go and bike threat. And so I want to try and get really practical. And I thought about how is it best to structure this. So what I did is I came up with five questions for you. And I've given these five questions in advance. So you can at least put a little bit of thinking to it. But off of these five questions, hopefully, what we'll come out with is a really practical lens for people to be empowered to go and make smart decisions for themselves. So we're going to try and not stray too far outside of basically this focus today, which is purchasing a new bicycle and under that, of course upgrading components in your new bike as well. And so with that are you fastening your seat belt? You ready to get cracking here?
Chris Soden 09:32
I'm buckled in, ready to go.
Matt Dixon 09:34
Good man. All right, so let's start with the first question types of bicycle. And what I want to focus on here is, is someone listening, getting the right bike for them? And I'll try and provide a little bit of context here. As I mentioned in the introduction, I see so many folks that think okay, it's time to upgrade, it's time to get a new bike, and they go to the websites the magazine or they look at what their favorite pro is writing. And just think that must be great for - make it up, Lionel Sanders, Jan Frodeno, Flora Duffy, that must be a great bike, I'm gonna go and buy that. And with the advances that we've seen in the industry around technology, it has radically improved the quality of the bicycles. At the same time, it's radically increased complexity of these bicycles. And so for someone that's going out there and starting, proverbially the shopping experience, what are some of the factors that the audience should consider so that they can filter the noise? And identify maybe two or three options of bikes or bike brands that are may be suitable for them.
Chris Soden 10:47
Yeah, that's a great question and really sits at the heart of what we want to do in this process. And I think you nailed it, as much as possible, what I try to get people to do is to actually look internally, we all want to watch what athletes just won a race and what athlete is on some new fun products, but really, at the end of the results to make or break is to look internally and be honest with the writing that you're going to do. Honest with kind of what would make you want to ride more, as you know, as a coach, all of those things align if you can get somebody on the right type of bicycle, that that not only fits them well but it's easily tailored for what they need. That's a win that's in any way about it. So I'd say first and foremost, you know, don't get don't get enamored by the shiny new thing, really try and think about what you want as an athlete, where you've come from, I always add, it's the first question I ask people, What don't you like about your bike? What do you love about your bike, because ultimately, when we buy new things, and we purchase new products, we're trying to solve problems, we're trying to solve things that perhaps we didn't like? And that really doesn't have anything to do with what athlete A rides, because frankly, they're at a different level they're sponsored, they have a different level of commitment, it's a tool to them. They're not spending necessarily their hard-earned money on the bike, they're being given the bike. And I think in a funny way, it's - I almost putting more onus on the regular athlete, because they are spending their hard-earned money on this thing. And so being a little bit selfish being realizing that it is okay to make yourself the focal point of that discussion is a great starting point.
Matt Dixon 12:26
And I see it, let me sort of lead you to what I'm thinking here perhaps a little bit. And that's a couple of things that I see. And I'll get them both out there. athletes, athletes, purchasing a bike, where their interactions with them are just not favorable. So maybe getting a bike that's really hard to navigate and handle, in the wind or over rolling terrain. And they're, they're just not the right athletes suited to that they're very different profile. Or on the second side of it, my second case study to ask you about in a way, is the athlete that purchases one of these new and in parentheses, superbikes that are highly complex, and then has absolutely no idea how to work on them, how to pack them, how to unpack them, and rebuild them at races, etc. And so ended up running around with high stress, because they've got these machines that are closer to a Formula One vehicle than they are to a bike that they can just get on and ride. So those sorts of considerations they should really think about.
Chris Soden 13:34
Absolutely one of the best examples of that is in the tri-world, there are some bikes that are very easy to adjust position. So if you think about it from a fitness perspective, we want to establish an excellent baseline position that works for the athlete enables them to train enables them to do the work that they want to get better. There are some bikes where it's very easy to change the front end and just simply say, let's say we're trying to kind of experiment with being a little bit more aero, a little bit more aggressive in the front position. Well, that could be one bolt loosened retorque it done. Another bike, it could be a series of spacers, a whole different bolt kit, a whole different mishmash of things, you have to make sure you don't cross thread things you don't pinch wires. Those are very two different scenarios that oftentimes what we see is it's such a hassle that the athlete goes, "You know what, I'm fine. We're just going to stay where I am. And I'm not going to put that time in or I don't want to spend the cost, the spike is already more expensive than I thought it would be because I've had to change these parts out." So I think that's a big part in what we see all the way to what you mentioned, how do I put this in a box? Oh, I didn't realize that this really needs a specific thing. This front end doesn't come apart. It's not like the older tri-bikes where it's a traditional stem and just I remove the faceplate and tuck some things in and, and I'm good to go in my bag. So a lot of the bikes as they have become more and more specialized. We need to really look at the entire picture so that there isn't frustration there isn't showing up to it. rays with missing parts are things that are stripped or wires that are pinched. And I think that's a lot of times part of the expertise that is so vital and maybe doesn't happen at the, at the traditional bike shop level, particularly in triathlon, where that might be a segment or a small wedge of a piece that a particular shop does.
Matt Dixon 15:20
So I'm going to ask you about triathlon shops a little later. But it kicks me into actually second question here. And this is a stat that I heard the other day that was surprising at the start when I heard it, but then I started to think about the context behind it. And this is direct-to-consumer, there are some fabulous bike companies that produce very, very good bikes, and they've built their models around direct-to-consumer, but I heard that 30% of purchases or purchases are returned. And I started to think about that, because the bikes themselves are good quality bikes, and yet one in three are returned to the production facility. So I'm assuming that that is either a sizing issue of the frame or as I thought more about it, component choice, such as length of STEM, crank length, etcetera. The extended setup, if you want to call it that, you need advice on that element or your perspective on that direct consumer side of things.
Chris Soden 16:22
Yeah, it's a fascinating stat. And I think what it really brings home is to the consumer that's coming to the marketplace that maybe isn't as experienced or the customer that's buying their first triathlon bike, again, maybe not experienced in that realm that they may be very competent in other types of bikes over the years. There is this funny kind of if you remove the bike shop, if you remove any sort of impetus, you get this thing, you go for a couple of rides, you don't like to saddle, it hurts your back, your neck is sore, it's easy to assume that it must be the wrong fit. It must not be the right bike. And what's happening in those windows is the bikes probably aren't getting tailored. You know, a lot of times we think about, we get asked all the time like does this like fit? And that's such a big broad generic question, you know, will I like this meal? Well, you may like elements of it, you may like parts of it. Generally, in those direct and consumer models, the frame size very rarely is the issue. It can be, we have seen that, particularly as companies struggle to try to give good feedback without kind of direct-to-consumer input about what's the right size, but really, at the end of the day, it's the touch points on the bike, if they're not setting the right position, if the saddle isn't suitable if it's not in a good position, the client is left thinking, gosh, I just spent a lot of money and I have that 30 days ticking where I can return this, maybe I'm just gonna send it back. And it's really causing you kind of a bit of an issue because I don't think direct-to-consumer brands have really prepared or expected that. And it just kind of shows you at the end of the day, what is really the make or break of whether a bike truly fits you well. And so much of that is the tailoring. Every bike manufacturer is different, they come up with different sizes, and they have different nomenclature, very confusing, it's confusing for us, and I've been doing it for 30 years. I mean, you have to continually re-establish, reaffirm check your numbers, double-check things, and that's for somebody who does it all the time.
Matt Dixon 18:25
You know, as you go through that. It's confusing for you, for you, it's, as a consumer, it was really consuming, confusing for me as well. And in fact, as you go through it, I had as you will know, a personal experience with this because I did direct consumer from Diaa at Ventum. Great bike. I got an NS1 Ventum bike. It was fabulous. But I set it up with you and when I went outside and started training for the crazy big bike ride that I did The Haute Route last summer, I never felt like I was a part of the bicycle it always felt slightly wrong. And I was just - I kept looking at the frame thinking as the head tube too tall and - and of course, the bike came with this integrated handlebar setup that looked very, very pretty. But ultimately, I thought I really liked this bike, but it isn't quite me and then we decided to strip it all down and ultimately go and purchase a different front-end setup. That was a bit more pragmatic a longer stem in my case, and it went from you I like it to, this is the nicest bike I've ever ridden. I just absolutely love it and of course, went on and had a fabulous experience all the way through the training and The Haute Route, etc. But that was a relatively expensive $700 mistake almost and I went from pretty to quite pretty, but from not quite fitting to absolutely being perfect and allowing my interactions my confidence my focus was all out Outside - it was a joy to ride. So having that up front, just getting the right equipment around the frame that didn't change at all was was was such a catalyst for me to feel better, but also frustration in the process, I would say.
Chris Soden 20:17
Yeah, and you're lucky that you stuck with it right? And you had the resources to know that, hey, you know, most of this is solid, it maybe it needs some editing some tweaking, I think that's one of the big things that we see from consumers, they either, probably because they're not quite 100% Sure, they might give up a little too quickly. The other thing that happens, I think about this all the time, you give somebody 30 days to return something, you know, what happens if your transmission goes on your car, what happens if you have some big expense that you didn't foresee? So there are always like elements of that. But I think one of the things that I - if there's one thing I could change in my career, it would be getting athletes and consumers to care more about the end result we tend to get, people just say, Oh, I'm not that serious. I'm not I'm not doing the Haute Route like Matt Dixon is I'm just getting out there having fun with my friends. And I think it's important to think about the expenditure, what the expectation of the expenditure should be. I think those are really important elements. Next time you go to a restaurant walk in and say I'm not that hungry, and I don't have a pallet like you're not, you're setting a standard of which you're not going to get what you deserve. And I think regardless of the level of athlete, treat yourself the right way, give yourself the room to experience what is possible, all that can happen is you'll ride your bike more, you'll enjoy it more, you won't have those extra ancillary purchases, that can be frustrating. Some people enjoy that space. But generally, I'd rather be riding my bike having a good time.
Matt Dixon 21:47
I think that what we talked about there, I mean, is people, there are folks that go out and spend a lot of money, but then suffer through a bike that ultimately - whether it's saddle choice, whether it's a frontend, whether it's crank, whatever it might be, they ultimately can't fall in love with that bike, they spent the money so they sort of kid themselves that they love it, but they don't. On the flip side, my experience where I had a bike, and fundamentally, I was very, very lucky because I had you right on hand like partnering. And I just What do I do, Chris, and you helped me navigate it through and having a resource and actually saying, you know, paying for the resources and give me the best advice here. But what it what it was a catalyst for me, and you mentioned this, I got to actually really enjoy riding my bike, I wasn't thinking about my back and riding 800 kilometers through the Alps. Those elements just didn't show up for me the pain, the suffering, I could actually look at the terrain, focus on my effort challenge myself based on my training. And so the enjoyment factor, I wanted to ride my bike, and it was a small change. It was just this much length a little wider handle boom boom boom. But it was critical. And I think that's important. Which leads me into my third question, in a way it because we've talked about it is an expensive endeavor. You know, we see where you're talking before we started recording about $20,000 bikes plus. And for folks that are listening, that aren't necessarily in the world of buying bikes, but are interesting, you'll be amazed, sometimes it can be like purchasing a car. So it is expensive. Do you have any advice on the athlete that wants to save dollars? And what this question is around is, where in purchasing a bike? Is it good to or worthwhile spending maybe a little bit more getting the highest-end equipment that you can wear? Is it a good investment for your return? And where are the elements of buying a bike when maybe it's a good place to try and save money where it's not worth going to the very top-end premium side of the bike, ride?
Chris Soden 23:54
Yeah, that's a great question. As with many things in life audio equipment and cooking gear, whatever it is, you get to a point where you start spending cubic dollars for kind of marginal gains. And for some athletes, those marginal gains are they make or break. And I think for most consumers, I like to break it down this way. The frame ultimately is going to set the foundation for our fit is going to set the foundation for the ride quality of the bike so that's probably the most important element to look at. After that, I would say the components, getting a good level components that work the way we want it to that isn't frustrating that that is up to the use that we're going to use. I'll give you a great example. They don't really make entry-level triathlon bikes anymore, because there isn't a triathlete buying a bike who doesn't have a program, a coach a race that they're training to do. There's no such thing as an entry-level endeavor in that sport you've taught you've chosen to climb this mountain. Here's what's needed. And that's a great example if you hand somebody an entry-level bike and that's But then it's not going to last, it's not going to hold up, it's going to fall apart be basically coming to pieces at the time you're ready to race. So components are some of the best way to just make sure it's appropriate for the use that it holds up, it can be adjusted. For most people, that's going to be probably a 105, Di2 anything north of that, Ultegra, SRAM Force, those are kind of the sweet spots, Rival. The matter is, the components have gotten so good, and with the introduction of so much electric equipment, it just works better, it stays in adjustment longer. I'd say if there's a place that people can pull back a little bit, it's probably wheels. Now I say that basically saying that wheels are probably more important than components in terms of speed and ride characteristics. But it's the easiest thing down the road to upgrade. So you can monitor those costs over time, you can amaturize that investment. And you can just ride something now. Upgrading an entire group of components really isn't practical. There's extra labor involved, matching parts. So I think just doing a set of wheels down the road is fantastic. And, you know, frankly, put your money into the contact points of the bike. Spend money on good quality saddles spend money on good quality shoes, and pedals, those are the interface points where you're going to touch the bike. And so if you don't really want to upgrade into some fancy rear derailleur, and then skimp on the saddle, or try to ride the stock saddle that came with it, because you don't want to spend any more money on it. That's fraught with just kind of pushing your eggs into the wrong baskets.
Matt Dixon 26:33
Not being an expert. You mentioned saddle there. And not being an expert. I'm a coach. But I observe and have obviously interactions with a wide wide range, of saddle choices. It's so important I see so many people suffering through poor saddle choice, it's, Would you concur that that is just such a critical element to get right for you?
Chris Soden 26:58
Yeah, I'll break the news here on your podcast, it is easily 50 to 60% of your bike fit. You can fidget it with everything else, if you don't have your saddle dialed in, if your saddle isn't a seven or an eight out of a 1 to 10 scale, frankly, you're just going to be spinning your wheels. And one of the challenges of saddle fitting is it's very difficult for most people to - A it's costly, right, it's a very costly thing to have to go buy a new saddle when you're not sure. B the chances that you're going to be able to get it in the correct position to be able to accurately audit it also creates another variable. We see this time and time again. A common phrase we hear oh I tried ISM saddles. I don't like them. That was six years ago. Totally different lineup of saddles, totally different shapes. ISM may have 45 saddles in their catalog. So if you tried one and you didn't like it, and you've kind of said, well, I don't like ISM saddles, you really just kind of pushing off a whole category that could be the wonderful saddle that is waiting to find its home. And so there's a ton that goes into it and having some guidance, some expertise - when we're working with clients in the studio, it's oftentimes we call it kind of saddle dating, right? It's been it's amazing. It's so funny, like, clients will literally get one arm and an arm pad and go, no, that's not gonna work. You know, we joke about it, right? In a dating context. That's the, you know, the person who sits down with, you know, smoking and has a mullet. No offense Ivan. It's- it just can be such an instantaneous thing like, nope, there's no way that's how it works. And then also, you put the right saddle underneath somebody and it's a bit of a eureka moment. Oh, I can, ooh boy, I'm not thinking about my back anymore. I can extend into position. Oh, now I have the opportunity to change the front position. So really, a saddle is important. I encourage everybody while it might be expensive and frustrating is the one fight worth fighting.
Matt Dixon 29:03
That's a great point. And for you guys that didn't catch the joke there. Ivan. Ivan O'Gorman, the founder, he has a fantastic mullet, he really does require. It's worth - It's worth us highlighting that 100%.
Chris Soden 29:21
It's a 10 out of 10.
Matt Dixon 29:22
It's a 10 out of 10. There you go. Speed. So I want I want to transition on because we do have listeners that that are focused on, I don't care, I'm going to throw money at the problem. What I want is the best speed return. So in a similar vein of question, where are athletes going to get their best return on investment? We can talk about fit. Obviously, we can talk about fitness, where that's where most speed comes from, you know, new bike, same old engine and all of that. But when we dial it down to our equipment, what are two or three of the elements that you say? Yes, that is a good speed return that you're gonna get investment, where are the elements that they should consider putting in some money?
Chris Soden 30:07
Yeah, I would say, especially in the triathlon context of some sort of aero helmet. Now that is predicated on the aero helmet being positioned correctly and integrating into the posture of the athletes. So, as always, these discussions don't ever stray far from a good proper bike fit, I mean, 70% of your drag coefficient is going to be your body. And huge gains can be made there with subtle repositioning. So we don't want to as you haven't, we don't want to lose context of that. But I would say an arrow helmet, almost invaluable. Just in terms of its kind of (inaudible) it does, it does the job of smoothing out the airflow up over the athlete creating less turbulence, less dirty air, behind the athlete. After that wheels, obviously, and with wheels, I would say that it's also again, we have to go back to that we have to be honest with the athlete that we're talking about, right, somebody who was averaging 18, 19, 20, miles an hour needs a slightly different wheel than somebody who is averaging 25, 26, 27, at the pointy end of the spear. So and the reality is, from an aerodynamic standpoint, the faster the athlete is capable of going, the better the opportunity to take advantage of the aerodynamics involved. And so one, it's a great thing to aspire to, it's also very important to make sure that we're positioning that athlete in a spot to, to succeed, then we have to balance all of the racing, that they're doing all the different events that they may do that where they are now as an athlete, where they're going, all of those things become really, really fun, which is why there's no Oh, always do this or always do that. But I would say, weight, weight in the wheel, the aerodynamic profile, the ability to run a proper tire, tire pressure, all of those things are super crucial. After that, I always go to drive train resistance, anything we can do to reduce friction. So we enter the world of oversized pulleys, reducing the angle that the chain sits at. We deal with better quality lubes race day loops for chains, decreasing drive train friction, just frankly, keeping your clean, your chain clean, and your drive train in good condition. You know, as always, we see so many different things. Always right before a race, I changed my chain, I didn't have a chance to test ride the bike, my gears were popping the whole race, there's so much low-hanging fruit for athletes to just kind of manage some of the basic things that will make their riding way more enjoyable, far less stress-free and - but those are kind of the three categories that I would say if you're if you getting after it, those are three great fulcrum points. The one thing I would say to about anything kind of ceramic bearings, you want to do them more globally, you don't just want to do a bottom bracket, you want to do a bottom bracket and some pulley wheels and make sure the bearings in your wheels are up to snuff. Because otherwise, you're just kind of you're changing or upgrading one wheel on the four on your car, it's the other three that are going to hold us down.
Matt Dixon 33:02
That makes sense. The other thing that I would add, on the wheel choice, is that front wheel, I see many people riding a wheel that's very deep profile. And then as soon as they go into conditions where they've got a crosswind or something like that they're not comfortable in the wind and any aerodynamic advantage, or supposed advantages mitigated by them coming out of aero position and being very tense on the bike. So are you actually someone that can actually make use of potential advantage rather than just thinking about what the magazines say as it were?
Chris Soden 33:36
That's a great point, man. And one thing that makes me think of is the proportionality of bikes, there are bike brands that have a very cool aerodynamic profile. But the reality is in the smaller, extra small, it's way too punitive for that athlete. You take the smallest athlete with the lowest body weight and put them on the saddle and put them in conditions. And so you read a forum and you go, wow, the spike’s really narrow, it's great, but the context is lost, and the suitability of that exact person. That's kind of the minute kind of granular level that's important to think about as an athlete.
Matt Dixon 34:10
That's great. So makes me think of an analogy sometimes of walking blind into a bike shop. And just buying the prettiest bike on the wall is a little bit like saying, I want to move to New York. So I'm going to buy an apartment and just going to buy one without even looking at the pictures online, let alone going to do a house tour. So - So what about used bikes, pros, and cons? What you know, any advice for folks, that there's a big market, a big secondary market out there that the pros and cons or any advice for folks that might consider buying a bike that's been used by someone else or owned by someone else prior?
Chris Soden 34:48
Yeah, it's a great question we get asked all the time. What about the used market the things that are important to remember about the used market - first and foremost, we are purchasing somebody else's tailored bike. So right off the bat, we're not buying the thing that we have the chance to buy new. We're buying this thing that's been altered, changed, and edited. And so again, we go back to that big checkmark like, does this bike fit me? And my question is always does this bike allow proper bike fit, I just had a case the other day where somebody bought a used bike from a literally that was a professional UCI bike. So the fork was cut all the way down to where no spaces are left. So now all we can do to edit that front end is use stems that are very upright, shorter, and longer. And so right off the bat, is it the right frame, absolutely did a great job in that. But the editing of the front end is now so severely limited, that we run the risk that we can't get it in an optimal position, his choice, he can go to the market, he can replace the fork, that's 450 $500. So you have to edit all of those things into your decision. You're not getting any sort of warranty. So you're kind of on your own in terms of maintenance, I would like any due diligence, and have your mechanic check the bike over some places like the Pros Plaza are doing a really nice job of kind of flowing the bikes through what they call kind of an accredited program previously owned. So there's kind of a guarantee of a certain level of components and warrant components are edited and changed. But we always have to remember those scenarios, right? They're a business, they have to make smart decisions. And at the end of the day, the upside is obviously you can spend pennies on the dollar. I think with COVID, the used bike market somewhat exploded, and we were seeing bikes used that were only four or $500 Less than a new one because you couldn't get the new one. So I think that's starting to recalibrate. And that's starting to recede a little bit. So I still think there's a lot of value in used bikes, but generally, the key elements are, you want to make sure that it hasn't been too edited or too tailored in a direction, that's not going to work for you because then your range of adjustment is going to be limited. And you could just factor in some ancillary costs after the fact having it fit. Having some products changed out really no different than what you would do in a new bike scenario. But used bikes, it's a great way to see - also just pay attention to the age of the bike, we - you know, when you look at Windows, I would say anybody looking at a used bike, I would try to keep them in a two to a three-year window, that's going to be the most up to date relative to the current marketplace, you go much beyond that. Well, Shimano has just pivoted into 12-speed across the board on most of their higher-end and reasonable kind of (inaudible). So anything three, four, or five years old, is now going to be 11-speed, it's not entirely punitive, you can still get parts for him, there's nothing wrong with that. But just like you wouldn't probably go to your Apple store and ask for an iPhone seven, you know like there is a sense of progress. And there is a sense of getting kind of the latest, greatest long-term making sure that you have what's needed.
Matt Dixon 37:57
So all of the information you provided there, was so valuable, and fantastic if I can, I'm just going to grab on hold on to you for a couple of minutes more because I want to talk about the fitting process and what yourself and Ivan and the team at IOG Bike fitting do in many ways. And the reason for this is that I think I got a little bit of an education or an epiphany, when we partnered and, and opened up the center in San Francisco, you guys are obviously such an important part and partner of us now. But I started day to day seeing you guys interact with many Purple Patch athletes, athletes coming in from inside. And my perception of how I view the fitting process has really evolved. And I started to realize hang on, it's not just special me, where I think, Oh, I'm going to buy a new gravel bike, Chris, what shall I get? And you really helped me, curate, I realized that that's actually what you guys do. And I might get this wrong you - but the way that I originally perceived bike fitting was someone takes a bike that they have purchased, goes to go and see Chris, who sets it up and gets their points in space, right? Taps them on the, well I won't say taps on the butt, but gives them a high five on the way out, and off you go and you go and enjoy the bike. But in really ways, I sort of identify in sort of three things that I see consistently doing, which is yes, the for lack of a better phrase, the numbers, but then the sort of real consultation process something you've done with me multiple times but also with athletes of really much of what we talked about today. Here's the frame but what else should we be considering putting everything in context for you and that consultation process? And there's something that I had no idea that I'm not sure if you want me to talk about this or not but the actually helping athletes go out and curate and knowing that you're brand agnostic saying this is the right bike and not only that we can go and get for you and build it for you and deliver it to you and set it up for you based on the original process. And so those sort of three elements of yes, the points in space, but also the consultation, and even sometimes the curation, or giving them the information to go to their bike shop and saying, This is what you want so that we can circumnavigate so many of the pitfalls that we talked about today because I cannot say that the consultation and getting it right is more important than the actual purchase of the bike fit. Is that a fair representation of what you do? And what's available for people?
Chris Soden 40:39
Yeah, I think it is, you know, we've tried to offer a diverse menu of services. And our new bike fit really is an attempt to do that it really is we use an adjustable bike so that we can come up with a really good solid starting position. And what that position does is it enables us to go to the marketplace and basically answer that first question, right? Does this bike allow me to get a great fit, we also want to be honest and realistic. And, that an athlete is always most athletes are always striving, I want to be a little faster, I wanted to be a little better at this big event coming up. I think one of the things that IOG has done incredibly well is we have really spoken to an element of that bike fit isn't just this very special thing that you do once every five years and yes, expensive. It that it is more of a relationship and we want to be available. We want to be in a consultative role we want - I would rather have a client, ping me, even though I might be super busy. I'd rather them ping me and ask my advice on should I get this set of wheels. Then have me see them in six months and go, Oh, why did you get this set of wheels? And have them go? Oh, yeah, what a mistake just shouldn't have bought them. So I think that's such a key role. What happened at IOG is, frankly, pretty fun and pretty special. I think we've established ourselves in the fitting community and in the bicycle community enough to the point where vendors started asking us well, can we just kind of give you access to our bikes, because I think they knew that the outcome for their end consumer was going to be wonderful. And at the end of the day, like, yeah, we all have to remember that, like, they do a great job of presenting a wonderful bike. But as you know, in your own personal experience, the make or break between like I liked this bike, and I love this bike can be little subtle details that are in there. And so when presented with that opportunity, we said, sure, you know, we're not a bike shop. But if we have access to a product, we can help our clients by simply being that kind of executor of everything that we've done in this process. And frankly, too there have been times where it's been frustrating for us to take the time to take the effort to literally write the menu out, hand it to your athlete and who then hands it to their bike shop, and it kind of doesn't get really fully done the way we want. You know, I noticed they change the crank arm. So these are close enough. Yeah, it's not an indictment of what's happened. But I think I think COVID really kind of brought to the forefront - what bike shops are great at is just taking orders, right? They just hey, you want this, great, awesome fries with that? Excellent. Awesome, we have it, it's here, Visa, MasterCard, boom? They really more and more, most bike shops don't really want to do that kind of deeper level deeper dive work because it takes time takes time resources, it takes a staff member pulled away from the busy fray of the sales floor to spend two hours with an athlete. And so for us, I think we it's a series of our business that we wanted to really activate, I think we're in the process of more outwardly kind of promoting it. But it's - it goes without saying and this is something that Ivan and I talk about all the time, it - there's not - we're still - we can be whatever our client wants us to be, we can be an agnostic consultant, we don't really at the end of the day, it doesn't matter to us whether we sell the bike or not, we do it because it serves our client, and it serves the clients of Purple Patch. That really at the end of the day, if we can, if we can add value in that space, we're happy to do it. It's not imperative for us to do that. So we really try to hone in on that. So if somebody wants to go out to the marketplace and buy a bunch of other products or products that we may not have access to 100%, we're still there to kind of do our job and make sure that they're making the best decision and help them navigate. I just had somebody in San Francisco, and one of the first - they bought a Trek from a local dealer there and I said, we really need like this change, this change, and this change. I want you to go back. They were content to just kind of go buy the stuff and I said really go back to the shop. Ask them the worst I can say is no. And sure enough, the shop was great. Oh sure. We'll change that crank arm and we'll change that whole front end we'll put a longer wire in. That's a huge win for us and it doesn't change one penny of revenue that flows our way. But in our world, that's such a huge win because we acted as an advocate for our client and - so yes, we are, we are activating some more channels there. And it's super fun. Because we're not a bike shop, we outsource all of our builds to professional mechanics, we have a very kind of we want to stay in our lane and focusing on what we do really, really well. And it's an exciting new thing that we're starting to more actively pursue.
Matt Dixon 45:21
Yeah, and one thing you said that I think is really authentic as well is that it doesn't matter to you guys because I know that some listeners are very, very loyal to their bike shop. And, and that's great. And if you have great loyalty, it's super what in that case, your role is to really support them or provide them with the information to help them go that arm to make sure they're getting the right thing for them, of which then you can help them align. And it becomes a sort of almost like a team and a collaboration component, which is also valuable. So I think that's very, very valuable. Now, I know that some people will be listening to this. My last thing I want to go over with you is some people who are listening, thinking this sounds terrific. But goodness me Boulder, Colorado, it's a long way away, San Francisco, California with Purple Patch. When are they coming here, but goodness me, I live in Singapore, I live in London I live in, you know, San Diego, it's just too far for me. And one of the things that many Purple Patch athletes leverage is the OCA as you call it, the online consultation, where being able to review someone's fit and setup but also that consultive process and even to the enth degree of going through the curation side of it is actually really very valuable. And I know that the online consultation that emerged out of necessity and COVID, but now has become a really valuable resource for you. Similar to us coaching, it's wonderful if I get to coach someone in person in my bike session, but I also coach people that are in Denmark and Colombia, and Singapore, et cetera, live and on-demand via our remote coaching, you guys have sort of managed to set up a system that I think has been a journey of learning, but also a journey of evolved effectiveness to really help people be able to tie into your expertise from anywhere in the world. Can you just talk about that a little bit? Because I find that fascinating.
Chris Soden 47:19
Yeah, we, when COVID hit, you know, we were our bike shop, our fitting studio, was basically deemed, you know, we weren't considered essential, because we didn't do repairs. And so we basically had to shut down. And, you know, it caused us to kind of think about outside the box a little bit about well, is there an opportunity to do these consults, is there an opportunity to help people in a broader reach? And I think, you know, I think we're somewhere into like, 250 of these. It's crazy like I never would have, if you told me three years ago like that would be the case, you're crazy. We've been very, very surprised at what we've been able to do in that space. If it's not for everybody. I think it's it, setting expectations about what it is and what it isn't is always important. I think we've like many things. Our esteemed leader, he does a great job of kind of reminding all of us that the focal point and really the main thing is the end result. So it started as an hour service where I've done everything from like, talk to somebody about setup and wheels and helmets to taking videos of them in their riding position and making some recommendations. What it's evolved into is basically kind of similar to I think, our general philosophy, it is more relationship based. And so it's probably an hour appointment. But really, realistically, it's probably two or three 20 to 30-minute appointments that ultimately allow us to check back in with athletes and make sure that they're absorbing the changes really well. And in a funny way, it kind of speaks to the general thing that we talked about earlier, which is I think the if, if you were to ask me, what's the main difference with IOG Bike Fitting I think, I think it's a relationship-based business. I don't think it's a fitting business. I think if it's a fitting business, then it feels like the thing that's really expensive, and you go once, and there's all this pressure to make all these huge changes because it's very expensive. And that's not really the best protocol. I think the best protocol is to establish a great baseline position, have success, and then ask the question, okay, what can we do now? Where can we go? And you know, this from coaching, right? It's the same? I think it's one of the reasons the relationship with IOG and Purple Patch is so strong is I think so many things that we do align with each other from a core value standpoint, from a protocol standpoint, from a methodology. I've watched, I mean, how many athletes do I engage with that are your squaddies, and they just love it, the amount of information they get the amount of resources that are available to them? In a very much more general format is huge. It's gold, and I think we try to align with that same thing. So the online consult has really turned into a fun, fun resource. It can be anything from consultants kind of phase, we've certainly helped people with new bikes, we've certainly helped people that they've progressed into different products or asked about certain upgrades. And I think the end results for us have been just a continual affirmation that this information and this expertise is very, very valuable. It's very welcome, and we're happy to be a part of it
Matt Dixon 50:29
Super. Well, for you guys. You guys in the audience. I will say that if, if you do so, so firstly, before I say this because that's going to sound way too promotional. And, and that's not the focus, the focus is education. So firstly, Chris, fantastic, and thank you. And I hope that you guys listening, take the information that Chris provided there and put it into - if you're thinking about upgrading equipment, you're thinking about maybe getting a used bike or a brand new shiny bike, I hope that it's really, really helpful. I also fully realized that many people listen and think you know what I really want to sort of activate a relationship with IOG and with Chris, with Ivan, and the rest of his team. And if you do, I will say this. And that is that, please, please, please on filling out your form. If you're going to engrave, we're going to put in all of the links into the show notes of how to get ahold of Chris and the team. But if you let them know that you are - that you heard the information in the education through this show, and then I know that Chris is sure to send you or give you one of the wonderful coffee mugs that they have at IOG, goodness me I have two of them. They are fantastic branding. And if you get to visit us here in San Francisco, or in Boulder, you will also get a lovely cup of coffee to go into that. And if you're here in the Bay Area, we of course will send you a Purple Patch goodie kit as well. So there is a high benefit. But joking aside, please, please, please do let Chris and the team know that you heard the information here on the podcast, it just helps us provide the context because then we know that you've heard the information and you've got eyes wide open as you go into, into a fitting process, whether it's in person or of course on one of the online consultations. Chris, I'm gonna ask our team to add all of the information into the show notes. And so folks can easily find you, but I really, really appreciate you spending the time and it was fun, but it was also really insightful. Thanks so much and see you next time.
Chris Soden 52:30
Sounds great, my friend.
Matt Dixon 52:33
Guys, thanks so much for joining. And thank you for listening. I hope that you enjoyed the new format. You can never miss an episode by simply subscribing, head to the Purple Patch channel of YouTube, and you will find it there. And you could subscribe, of course, I'd like to ask you, if you will subscribe. Also share it with your friends. And it's really helpful if you leave a nice positive review in the comments. Now any questions that you have? Let me know. feel free to add a comment and I will try my best to respond and support you on your performance journey. And in fact, as we commence this video podcast experience, if you have any feedback at all, as mentioned earlier in the show, we would love your help in helping us to improve. Simply email us at info@purplepatchfitness.com or leave it in the comments of the show at the Purple Patch page. And we will get you dialed in. We'd love constructive feedback. We are in a growth mindset as we like to call it. And so feel free to share with your friends. But as I said, Let's build this together. Let's make it something special. It's really fun. We're really trying hard to make it a special experience. And we want to welcome you into the Purple Patch community. With that, I hope you have a great week. Stay healthy, have fun, keep smiling, doing whatever you do. Take care
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
bike, athlete, bike shop, people, buying, saddle, patch, purple, bicycle, wheels, purchasing, fitting, chris, ride, position, triathlon, question, thinking, aerodynamic, components