358 - Podcast Takeover: Matt Dixon on Tim Reed & Sam Appleton's Triathlon Therapy Podcast

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Welcome to the Purple Patch Podcast!

On today’s episode, IRONMAN Master Coach Matt Dixon, host of the Purple Patch Podcast, discusses a special episode featuring a re-screening of the Triathlon Therapy Podcast with former Pro Triathletes Tim Reed and Sam Appleton. Dixon reflects on his coaching journey with Reed and Appleton, emphasizing the importance of health, mindset, and adaptability. He highlights the significance of integrating training into daily life, the value of perceived exertion over data, and the need for athletes to focus on fundamentals like sleep and recovery. The conversation also touches on the challenges of coaching multiple athletes and the importance of balancing professional and personal life.

If you have any questions about the Purple Patch program, feel free to reach out at info@purplepatchfitness.com.

Episode Timecodes:

00-:27 Show Open

:28-3:05 Intro

3:18-8:55 Tim Reed Background

9:00-15:53 Training Cycle Methods

16:55–19:40 Nailing The Basics with Tim Reed

20:30-25:02 Navigating Failures

25:59-28:00 Tim Reed Story

29:02-end Development of PP Training Philosophy

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Transcription

Matt Dixon 00:00

I'm Matt Dixon, and welcome to the Purple Patch podcast. The mission of Purple Patch is to empower and educate every human being to reach their athletic potential. Through the lens of athletic potential, you reach your human potential. The purpose of this podcast is to help time starved people everywhere integrate sport into life. I

Matt Dixon 00:29

and welcome to the Purple Patch podcast as ever, your host, Matt Dixon, and today, we're going to do something different. We're going to call it a hijacking. You see, very recently, I was just invited on a show triathlon therapy, and it's hosted by Clint, very nice guy, but also two former Purple Patch pro athletes, Tim Reed and Sam Appleton. I coach Tim all the way through about four or five years of his triathlon journey, culminating in him becoming the Iman 70.3 World Champion. And I also, luckily and thankfully, got to coach Sam Appleton through his triathlon journey for about the same time period. And I learned a lot from both of these athletes, and had really a great, rich experience. And so for me as a coach, it was fantastic to take a little bit of a step back in time and have a really fruitful conversation with these guys on their show, triathlon therapy. I enjoyed it so much I thought we should share it through the Purple Patch podcast. And so today I'm not bringing you a Purple Patch podcast. Instead, we're going to do a re screening of sorts of triathlon therapy. We're going to put it through the Purple Patch shell of a podcast. And so it's really fun. We dig into many of the stories and many of the lessons that we shared as coaches and athletes as we went on the journey to high performance. I think you're going to enjoy it. It's really organic. It's a lot of fun. There's a lot of reminiscing, but also there's a tremendous amount of nuggets that you can pull out of it. The last thing I'll say, before we get going with the meat and potatoes today, which is triathlon therapy, is as ever. We are here for you. If you would like to extend the conversation at all, understand more about any of the Purple Patch coaching programs we are available. We'll set up a complimentary consultation. Simply reach out to us info@purplepatchfitness.com

Matt Dixon 02:24

and we will have a chat and see what type of program is right for you at Purple Patch. Oh, and one more thing as well, make sure that you add triathlon therapy to your subscription. Make sure that you subscribe listen to the show wherever you find your podcasts. The guys. They're a great bunch of guys. They're great coaches, really smart, really fun, and got a great outlook on life and performance within the context of everything that is important to us. And so make sure that you check out other episodes of this show. It's a really good sister podcast to Purple Patch fitness. All right, guys, enjoy. I give you without further ado the meat and potatoes,

Tim Reed 03:11

Matt, I just want to thank you for coming on for all our listeners. Matt is a bit of a revolutionary amongst coaches in that. I guess the best way to describe it is, and I love how you've always said this. You don't have a specific methodology that you go to. You've always described yourself more as a problem solver with athletes. And I definitely can recognize that Matt coached APO and I for a long time, he's been, you know, the coach of champions, obviously in triathlon, including, you know, a world champion.

Tim Reed 03:47

And like two world champions, dozens of, dozens of, you know, champions across IRONMAN and 70.3 distance, probably in the 20s or 30s, of athletes, I would imagine. And Matt, we're really stoked to have you on especially given how much apple and my career relied on your assistance. Thanks

Matt Dixon 04:08

for having me, guys. It's exciting. I'm still, I'm still reeling from that last story, so mostly, mostly just coming to terms with the fact that it's a two hour and 20 minute pacer in the first place, like, forget all the other nonsense that's that's absolutely insane. So Steve, goodness me, but, but thank you very much for having me on the show. No

Tim Reed 04:31

No worries. And just while Steve's on, I wanted to talk about, I guess, for you, when you've had athletes that a bit like me who would develop a bit of a chip on their shoulder to motivate their training and racing and and for me, I always felt like it helped a lot with my 70.3 racing, and I sort of had to learn to let go of all that anger to do any Well, Iron Man, one of your best attributes is understanding the personality of athletes and working with it. How do you Yeah, how do you deal with athletes like Steve and I?

Matt Dixon 05:03

Yeah, you're not the same well. Well, I will say for everyone, the when, when, Tim, when you first reached out to me for coaching, which was way before I met young APO there your introductory conversation was, I am completely uncoachable, and something to that effect. And, and I don't think anyone in the world could coach me, but, but I think you can. And, and then you came to a school in San Francisco where you went to a swimming swimming pool, if you remember that, and you walked on with your budgie smugglers. And what more could I do but dare to dream? But you know, I as an athlete myself. You know, I was, I was a swimmer at a high level, and I didn't get the return of investment. So I moved to the States, tried my heart out, etc, had my fair share of trauma growing up as well. And so I sort of identify with what you talk about there a little bit. And my own triathlon career was really a story of failure. You know, I trained myself into the ground. And so when I, when I turned to coaching, I really, I felt like I was righting a wrong. Actually, at the time, I looked around not just at my own story, but many athletes, and I saw so much fatigue out there, a poor return of investment and and so at the heart of the heart of and I'm coming to the personality, but the heart of everything I started doing, particularly on the elite side of the sport, was I want my athletes to be healthy. I want them to have this foundation of physical health. And so look, it's there's no shortcut to success. It's a journey. It's going to take, typically, multiple years. And I want my athletes to improve over over multiple years and and I'm going to do everything I can to ensure that, yeah, they're going to freaking work their asses off. No one's ever called me a too easy coach. Let's call it that way, but I am going to really prioritize recovery, nutrition, etc, which sounds so obvious now, but at the time, even when we started Tim those were often sort of relegated as lip service. But the athletes for me that were the differentiated ones, the ones that actually I saw that were going to go the journey what was seldom the ones that just had pure physical talent. It was the ones that had the right mindset. And as a part of that, quite often, having an edge, having something that is, as you say, a chip on the shoulder, or whatever it might be, it can be an athlete's biggest strength. It can also be their limiter. And so I that it's obvious, look, you need to have a certain physical set of traits, then you want to get the athlete to be really, really healthy, consistent over many years. When we started working with each other, and let's just talk about you two guys, both Tim and APO, I was immediately thinking, multi year journey. Where can Tim be in three years time? I want him to win races this year, but where can he be in three years time? Where can APO be? And what's the art going to look like? And then the other part of it is really the differentiator. That's the part where, on a one to one basis, you're helping the athlete and and accelerate and fuel all of the effort fuel all of that energy. And so I felt my role was to really listen and understand and get to know them as a human being, and then mold my principles. Because I had very firm principles, you know, and I sort of explained those platform of health, etc, but mold the approach and almost try and super fuel the athlete, because ultimately, it's your journey. Tim, it's apos journey. It's Steve, journey. And I was never dogmatic in trying to force something on top of an athlete. I wanted to just fuel your journey and try and help you accelerate. So I always look for the mindset, and I always look to that edge as something to ultimately leverage. I would say one thing

Sam Appleton 09:03

that I think has been lost a little bit in this modern era, a bit as well, is, you know, or maybe you can discuss a little bit about the, you know, the cyclical nature of training and how, you know, Zone Two is very in vogue now. But you know, zone two has been around since the dawn of time. And I think one thing that I took from your coaching, Matt, is you were very feel based, and a lot of the time, you know, you got rid of data points or numbers or, you know, very rarely would you send me out on a session and be like, Alright, you're going to do four by 20 minutes at 300 watts or something, you would, you would kind of give a range or a feeling. And I think, you know, use perceived exertion a lot, I think, which is almost a bit of a lost a lost training metric, in my opinion. Can you discuss a little bit about the trends that you. Seen, and some that are, you know, have come and gone, or some that you've used throughout your whole coaching career. Yeah,

Matt Dixon 10:07

I think what you mentioned there with metrics, I would say is, in part, a strength and also my greatest weakness. But I'll come to that in a second, the cyclical nature of training. And I think when I answer this, I think it's important, because there's a perception out there that I am somehow anti science, anti data, etc. Let's not forget, I have a master's degree in clinical physiology. I've probably done more than 1500 blood lactate tests in my time. I've probably done more than 1000 vo two Max tests. I have a rich history in that part of it. I know a little bit about science,

Sam Appleton 10:41

yes, yes. And I wasn't trying to say you weren't that, yeah, just

Matt Dixon 10:47

so there is a foundation. This isn't because there are other pretty well known coaches out there that you could cast more of sort of Luddites and say that's all rubbish, and it's like, it's not freaking rubbish. It's actually really useful, if it's used in the right context. My waste feeling, though was around this is that foreign athlete, and let me jump jump to a story like Tim, and I'm sure that you've world trodden over this ground, but you're 70.3 World Championships. You didn't win that because of data. You know, you win that because of decisions that you made, and it happened to be, in part, because you're really savagely smart as an athlete, also a little bit of luck and the things went your way, but it happened to be that you made every right decision on that day. And that's, I think, a big part of coaching is to empower athletes to do that. And I don't think you're in a position to be able to do that unless you really understand your own body and you have a sense of what I call the inner animal, and so that there's always this tug of war going on between leveraging metrics and data to ensure that you're getting a really clear, objective picture, quantifiable at the same time not shackling it, where it can sometimes limit performance or diffuse an athlete's sense of understanding of how their body responds in many ways. And it's funny like you mentioned zone two, apo, it's everything you know, everything from nutrition. I was laughing the other day. You guys, I'm sure, know a coach, David, David Tilbury Davis, and last year, on the back of the Norwegians, and over the last couple of years, you know, blood lactate testing in the field started to rocket as the brand new thing. That's another great example. And and he happened to message me. We get along pretty well. We don't speak to each other that often, but he messaged me, and I said, I know I'm getting pretty old, because I'm now on my third cycle of the innovation and the explosion of this brand new thing called blood lactate testing. So must be getting old in the tooth. So, yeah, it's one of these things that you I think that here's the ultimate truth. So much of what we think about here can prove to be a distraction. And I see athletes focusing so much on the periphery of stuff where they're they're looking for the next great thing, the next great supplement, the next great sort of latex tube, or the next great bike position, whatever it might be, and that stuff's fun and it's sellable, and it's interesting and important for athletes if they've mastered the fundamentals. And what I see in the landscape, even with pros, but particularly with amateurs, is all right, you can focus on all of that stuff once you have truly mastered sleeping properly, fueling the body properly, to support training, taking enough recovery, building consistency, and also, by the way, if you really want to know how to drive performance, be socially connected, be happy, have fun, and go from there. So so I think that's why I've sort of really anchored on that stuff, more than just some of the incremental stuff on the outside and the fringes.

Tim Reed 14:06

And I think just to vouch for that in my own experience, Matt was, you know, I was an athlete who would get bogged down in the one percenters, and I think it was especially leading into 2016 and also some personal situations, you know, with the loss of a friend and and you really brought me back to, I think it was a nice balance, because you would always be like, Tim, you need, we need to get the 99% right, the basics, like focus on the foundation, even at that high level. When I had the chance to win a world title, it was always, I was always like, oh, when should I do the afterthought? When? How much fat, fat metabolism sessions. Should I do this? And you always just, Tim, just do the work and get some sleep. You need to. That's the first thing you need to do. And, you know, and I've got athletes now where it's the opposite, where I've got, you know, Regan will be the first to admit she gets the foundations superbly, right? But she's not, doesn't have the. Details around what's the hydration setup going to be, what's the so it is that that balance, and, you know, obviously for me, it was the perfect counter to what I needed. And even, like you said, the social connection thing, I think is so underrated. You know, I don't know why I did this, but, like, leading into a world champs the year after I was, you know, there's a few factors, but I've thought if I isolate myself like Dave Scott and live like a monk, that will help my performance. And it was the worst thing I could possibly do. And I would, you know, even when in big trading blocks, there'd be the occasional time where I'd say to you, Matt, I got rugby league drunk last night with a bunch of friends. And you'd be like, great, that's the reset. No more of that. But it was never like, you know, there was this understanding around it, and

Matt Dixon 15:42

I wouldn't have reacted the same to Jesse Thomas, you know, who I was coaching at the same time as that. That's you. I really felt like you needed that. And both of you guys are actually, in some ways, very similar. Tip, Tim, you're you're really interesting. And an apple, I'd say the same as well, because people always want to know, what did, what do you add? Or what's the magic when someone goes through and has just like a marvelous performance and breaks through, in our case in point, you winning the world championship, but quite often it's what we remove. And that year, 2016 for you actually, actually, and I'm not sure if you two boys remember this, but I talk about all the time now, the whole Purple Patch saying of nailing the basics. And there were basically seven things that year, Tim that we said, this is what you're going to focus on. You're going to really sleep, you're going to fuel you're going to make sure that we keep up with our strength training. You know, not massively heavy strength training, but strength training. We're going to go, you know, and these very basic fundamental things, get that right, you're 99% in the way, then we can add whatever we did. And I think what that did for you was it was really liberating. It was it simplified your life and and that was, that was something that was, that was really valid as well. I want to make sure you haven't asked me the question, but I want to talk about both of your guys, mindset as well and adaptability. And I might even give APO a couple of kudos, not just beyond his facial hair as well, which is

17:15

fantastic. We were discussing that earlier. Actually. How

17:17

you like this one? Matt,

Matt Dixon 17:22

you grew that this morning for me, didn't you?

Tim Reed 17:24

It's like you entered puberty and then you just decided to quit halfway through.

Sam Appleton 17:31

Well, I did. I did turn it was 35 last week, so it's about time.

Clint Rowlings 17:38

I'd love you to keep talking, Matt in terms of specifically about these two and the similarities and differences in the way that they went about things, I find it very intriguing. So if there is another about these two guys specifically,

Matt Dixon 17:54

I'll tell you an APO look. I've obviously got the greatest respect for both of these guys as athletes, each of them had their own superpowers, if you want to call it that, I think what APO was perhaps one of the best athletes that I coached for this was when his back was against the wall with great uncertainty, massive adversity. And I can give you a couple of examples. I'll give you one, which was leading into the world championships. I think it was South Africa Po, where 10 days out, he just got terribly sick, you know, just, I'm not sure if you even remember it, Sam, but you were so sick, and it really derailed the runway, you know. And it was one of those sicknesses that was a good five days, you know, nasty, very little activity, so much so that he didn't even know whether to to get on the plane, to head all the way to South Africa, to then go and try and race and and that could be really derailing for athletes. And that was one of multiple times that some form of adversity was stripped away. Would be very easy for an athlete to go into low expectations. And we had a saying at Purple Patch, which is, don't have low expectations. Have no expectations. Ask your body the question and allow it to answer, rather than your mind pre determining. And every time you were faced with that APO you showed up and raced like it was the most perfect preparation ever. And quite often, really, you know, sort of got blood out of a stone and that, that performance you were first off the bike there, which I know that's not the race, but yet, you had, I think, one of your best performances of your career, especially in context with that and that, that's what I remember you as an athlete. Actually, is just your ability to take the knocks and come back up again, which I think is one of the biggest litmuses of creating a champion, is how you respond to the failure. Think

Clint Rowlings 19:50

like dealing more often. Come on. I'm just gonna I'm trying to work out a way.

Matt Dixon 19:55

Hang on. I'm speaking to an Australian audience. I need to be much more I'm one. Been two way to America.

Tim Reed 20:02

We haven't heard compliments like this on the show ever. Yeah. So

Matt Dixon 20:06

nice. So

Clint Rowlings 20:09

I think that's one thing that when starting to work with pros more and more, you realize that they will turn up, win, lose or draw a lot of the time and give their all. And you see a lot, it's something that a lot of age groupers can learn from in terms of, like, they always wait for the perfect prep to go and kind of put their work to test. And eventually you'll be five years down the track and you haven't raced enough to actually have a perfect race, because you're so limited by your own thoughts, right about about racing as often because you're too scared to go there and do it if you're 99 or 95% fit. I've seen it with both these guys as well. You know, they turn up and race, and every time races well as they can humanly do on that day.

Matt Dixon 20:57

Yeah, it's, I mean, many ways, sport is a great metaphor of life here, and it's no wonder that so many organizations love to hire ex athletes, because they've got, obviously, the proven ability to commit, but also this resilience and adaptability that you hear so much about and and how to navigate failures. And I would say that also. And Tim, maybe you would reflect on your own career and say this was actually a point of one of your weaknesses, which was sort of fear going into races, etc. But that, that Australian race again, I remember as a coach. I'm not sure if you remember as an athlete, but you had tremendous hometown fear there, you know, very far away from from your hometown. And you had the stacks of pressure that was a weight of family, friends, Australia, if you want to call it, you know, really on your back. And you two weeks before that race, that was a weight on your shoulders. And by the time you raced, you'd, you'd managed to mold that into wind beneath your wings, and that was a I'll always remember that as a as a catalyst, when those conversations between us and I was here in San Francisco, you were there, but we had multiple conversations, and there was a slow molding or shifting in mindset. And when that mindset had shifted the day or two before the race, I suddenly became incredibly confident that that you would at least have a great personal performance. You can't predict what would happen, obviously, and you won the race, that was great. But I suddenly became more confident because of the mindset, which I just find that interesting, because you probably, probably, I'm guessing, reflect on your mindset. Maybe being or pre race nerves has been a limiter for you, but you actually,

Tim Reed 22:48

absolutely, I will. I remember the I think it takes failures sometimes to really adapt as well. And, you know, the year before, I actually think I was fit at going into the world championships, but I didn't, I didn't switch the pressure the right way. And I remember you, you putting it to me that, Tim, this is just another opportunity to go out and do your best and have fun out there. You know, you're always like and I've used this a lot with APO as well, because he puts the same level of pressure on himself. And you know, we've had some run ins to races where he's been, you know, hasn't had a good lead in. And I sort of use that same tactic with the athletes that are like me, who that it becomes this the weight of the world on your shoulders when, you know, realistically, it's just another race and no one really cares but, but I remember you just putting it to me, this is an opportunity, you know, go out use what training you have if you fall short, there's, you know, it's not the end of the world. And always just putting it into context, which I needed. And also, like I said, there was other situations in life where you realize this is just, you know, kids and friends that you know more serious things happen, and you realize that racing is just an opportunity. And I think there's the fighter, Dan hooker Clint, and I remember he got knocked out in a fight. And sorry to bring this to MMA, but that's what I watch, way more than triathlon. And he, you know, he retired in the ring way too young. And then next day he got onto a week later, he got onto his Instagram, and he just said, you know, I was really emotional in there. I felt like I'd let everyone down. And then I realized no one actually cares. He's like, we create this world where everyone is judging us based off performance. And of course, like people do give you more attention when you're winning and everything like that. But ultimately, at the end of the day, everyone's got a short term memory in terms of athletic performances, what really matters is, what's your relationship like with your with your true friends? Have you spent good time with your kids? They're not going to sit at your funeral and go, I remember when dad won World Champs. They're going to sit there and remember. The times that you know, I was making hilarious jokes and being an amazing father.

Matt Dixon 25:07

I tell you what, though I've got an opportunity here because I and I've waited, what year did you win? Tim 16? So I've waited almost 10 years for this. But I wonder, and Clint, I'm going to tell you a really quick story here so that you, you reminded me our pre race talk, and we've now, we've got all the context here, yeah, and the day before, and I said, Look, Tim, I trust you. And I said, I want you to just go out and make smart decisions, like every just make a decision. If you have to make a decision, make the more aggressive one, and go have fun. That's it. Tim Reed, world champion, blah blah blah, he finishes and blah blah blah. And for me as a coach looking to attract more athletes and build the empire that is Purple Patch, I was like, This is it? Tim Reed goes on the podcast circuit. And the first question was, I gotta know Matt Dixon, your coach, blah blah blah, what was the race strategy? And Tim went, Yeah. He told me to go and have fun. Like, little shit, there's more to it. That was the only bit

Tim Reed 26:09

I remembered. So

Clint Rowlings 26:12

fun, yeah, to go into bat for ready? We spoke about not knowing and remembering things we spoke about the race a couple of years ago, so it's not that long ago, and he couldn't even remember where the bike course went. We're at Sunshine Coast for another race. And we said this, and he said, No, when we went, when I raced here, we went this way. No, you didn't mate, you went the other way. He was just so caught in the moment of doing it. So yeah, he doesn't have the greatest memory on some things, mate, but that four odd hours or touch under he made right decisions, I guess,

Tim Reed 26:46

moving off the amazing topic of APO and I, as much as I'd love to do the whole podcast, honest, let's talk a bit about you as a coach, Matt, I guess for me, you know, never really being a Full Time coach, I obviously always coached a few athletes while I was a pro to keep learning and keep my hand in the game. But now, as a full time coach, I never really comprehended the burnout that coaches go through. And grant Giles described it to me as like when they saw me after coaching full time for the wise, like, how you going being the human sponge, and I didn't really know what he meant. He meant. He said, you know, taking on everyone's problems. Were there points in your coaching career where it is a job, where everyone wants something, even if it's small and it just accumulates in your day, everyone wants something, everyone expects something. Everyone's the main character in their own life movie. And I know I was guilty of this sometimes thinking that, you know, you just, you're just obsessed with your own little world at the time. Talk to me about, yeah, were there points of potential burnout? Obviously, you don't do as much one on one coaching now, but yeah, give us some insight into that.

Matt Dixon 27:58

Makes me like when, when I had the pro squad where we had 10 to 12 athletes, typically, at any one time on the on the roster, it was, I said it was like having 10 teenagers. And after 15 years of it, I thought it was time to to back away. And true, you know, Sam, you probably felt that in the last year or so of me meat coaching. So, you know, it was, it was time. It was time for me to start to step away, for sure. But, um, I think the it, I think the key, there are a couple of things that fueled me. First, I I really, I was pretty purpose driven. I wanted to be a in my lens, and I don't want to make it too Grandy, I sort of thing, but I really did feel like I wanted to have a positive impact on the culture of the sport. Where I felt like it particularly, not just the world class level, but certainly the amateur level, there were so many people that were grinding themselves into the ground at the consequence of not just their health, but their relationships. So I was and I saw my my group of pros that I was coaching as the models to exact influence. It gave me voice to actually have a bigger mission. So I think that really helped me, that I was pretty purpose driven, and I don't want to make it into more than it was, but that's how I saw it. Number one. The second thing as well was, I think there are three main things. The second thing was really being grounded and and deliberate about carving out time. And it certainly very much helps if you've got a great partner, great family, great set of friends, and you you make sure that you really give time to them and you don't let it bleed. So I got better and better through the years of saying I'm done like this is I'm protecting this day. I'm protecting this weekend. I'm not and not just letting it be 24 seconds seven, and that's the same with anything. And then the third which, which is kind of funny to say on here with you. Guys here, but the realization early in my career with the pros, I was too, too much like a friend to them, and as soon as I shifted and realized they're not actually my friends, I can have great relationships, I can be really friendly, and I can really but, but they are not my friends, per se, that actually really helped me. And and then, you know, interestingly, at the end of career, sometimes you become friends with them, you know, but, but as we went through the process creating that divide was very, very important for me, and I think it really helped. And then, ultimately, yeah, I didn't take anything too personally. So, you know, my only frustration sometimes was, and you guys have probably had this as a coach, it's like, Oh, Matt just doesn't have enough time. He's got too much going on. That was the thing that was actually the dagger to me, because you're so committed to them. And the most important thing is I never looked at it as my journey. I always want like it was your journey, Tim and you only have one. It was Apple's journey. You only have one. It was Rachel Joyce's journey. She only had one. So if I wasn't giving time, that was, that was the thing that killed me more than anything. I have to say, I think

Clint Rowlings 31:18

a lot of athletes don't understand that and that that really hurts. When I hear that from athletes as well, where they say, like, oh, you know, you seem too busy, and you're like, just because it's not one on one, direct contact that we have doesn't mean that I'm not spending exorbitant amounts of time thinking about you in terms of, like, thinking about how to make you better, the things that we can do to make sure you're more efficient. And so when those comments are said, and if it's even even ings, it can still really, really be hard to take. Speaking of like you said, you're not friendly with them after the fact, you kind of when they when they retire, sometimes you can become good friends with them. Have you had any athletes over the years who towards the end of the career, and we'll just quickly head back to UFC they get retired by getting knocked out five times. Athletes can turn up to races for years on end and not be the athlete they were and be in a semi case of denial. Have you had any athletes along the years where you've had that chat and said, Look, I think it may be time to hang up the tri suit.

Matt Dixon 32:31

I've had athletes that I've slowly moved out without them realizing they've moved out from purple. I'm pretty good at that. I think it's time I should leave. Yeah, that's probably for the best. That's but that's for a host of different reasons. I'll say a couple of things here, some of the athlete relationships, and it really depends, but and it tended to be this tend to be weighted towards the folks that I was coaching in person, like Sarah pimpiano, Jesse Thomas, and those the US based athletes I did a lot of work with them, trying to set up their career, or whatever was happening next after the fact, before they retired. So doing a little bit of planning, and that really, really helped. That's really something that's athlete driven in many ways. In other words, you know, Tim, you were pretty autonomous. You didn't really need that and but if Tim was getting into coaching and building his business, I think we had a couple of discussions around coaching, but, you know, so I was always sort of saw like in my mind, always visioning on from that. I've had a couple of athletes where I said, Okay, it's really time to start at the world class level, and they they've decided to continue on. And if that's the decision, I'm absolutely fine with that. I just get amnesia. I just, I just, I move on to the next thing. It comes back to our last conversation. I got so much stuff going on that if they go on, wish them luck. I hope they go and do well. I hope they prove me wrong. But then I just get amnesia. I just move on to the next person, to be honest, that's not an accrual thing. It's just a fact of life. You know,

Tim Reed 34:12

yeah, I think, yeah. I think it's a journey for everyone, same as an athlete, but as a coach, you know, a lot of those things really, especially ring true for Clint. And I just about having to put an end to the day, because there's, it's not really a start and stop job in any way. There's always something more you could be doing. And I've found too like, often it's the athletes who don't reach out about anything, who then turn around and I know I was like this, I would probably didn't reach out enough, and I almost would expect the coach to reach out to me, but it just can't be that way, because there'd be no end point for the coach. You know, so often it's the it's never the athletes who reach out, it's the athletes who never reach out, who then turn around and say, I just don't feel like. We have the, you know, you give me enough. I'm like, I don't have time to just guess what, what you need, you know, for every, every day. And the the

Clint Rowlings 35:10

amnesia, things are really good one actually, because we've more and more, like, ready. And I talk about it a lot. And when you have those conversations about athletes and they're going to move on, it's like, well, as long as we feel like we've done as well as we can in that situation, if they go somewhere and want to talk ill of the business, then eventually it'll probably get found out that it wasn't the business that was actually the athlete.

Tim Reed 35:33

And I think even even at the guys that finish up, they often go to other coaches. And I know, for me, I you know, I think sometimes being with another coach, I certainly realized how incredible your attributes were and how much I enjoyed the sport while I was training underneath you. And I think Clint and I have had the same experience with a lot of athletes who think the grass is greener. And I think as a pro, you're always hoping the grass is greener, or you always want to get to the next level. So you think I need more of this, instead of sort of reflecting. Of, well, I'm still improving every year. You know, it's just that athletic, athlete nature of, I have to do everything I can. I have to learn everything I can and and sometimes, you know, the athletes come back, or they reflect and go, You know, sometimes you got to stick with what's working. And change is not always, you know, it's not always a good thing. So, you know, even for us, Matt, I think it was, I feel like it was, like you said, it's a multi year progression. You're the one person, especially in the early years, where I was really just let you take control, and then when it was time and I was winning races, I would, you were very receptive to my input as well. And I think my biggest issue at the moment with young up and comers is they're not at that stage where they should be telling me what they think they need. And I think there's a point where every athlete can really work well with their coach, once they're winning races, once they're, you know, really doing well and have that, or there might be a plateau in some areas, then it's like, cool, let's discuss this. But I'm, I'm getting so bloody annoyed with guys telling me what they need when they're in their first couple of years of triathlon plus, or they're already getting huge improvements every few months. So do you get that? Do you feel like there's a point where it becomes more of a you're working together more than just dictating what's needed?

Matt Dixon 37:28

I think it's the ultimate litmus to success, to be honest, I think early on, it needs to be, in some ways, a benevolent dictatorship. And you there needs to be, there needs to be a period of fostering trust and understanding and getting buy in. I think that's absolute clarity on expectations, path, buying, etc, but, but certainly over, like Tim, for the first two or three years with you, apo as well. It's like, this is what we're going to do. This is where we're going to go, and then getting there is opportunity still for discussion and combat if you want to have it that, but ultimately buying but over as you start to have success that there's for any coach to be like, I know it all, and I know all the answers, once you've built this legacy together in a way like two, three years of daily training with that's yielding really good results, then it would make sense to me to say, Okay, now what? And here's what I think we should do, or what we should what we should add, or what we should evolve, or what we should shift, but the the athletes living it every single day, and they're going to have perspective. The key thing is to fill, and then they might get other ideas from their peers or other coaches, but that has to go through a filter as well and say, yeah, and put into context, which I think is so important, my guess is I know this is the fact for me as an athlete after coaching for so many years. Oh, my goodness me, if I was an athlete now, I would be so much better at being coached than than I was the first time round. I bet, I bet you guys probably feel the same. Yeah, it's like a benefit of wisdom and experience of I would be so much, you know, apo, your strength was not forcing communication and follow up, but etc, same as me. I was just a puppy dog. I just did whatever the coach wanted. You know, I was just, I wanted to please the coach every time in swimming and triathlon. So I, you know, I just look at all of us and be like, what type of dog was I? Matt, Oh, you were. You're like a terrier with interior Labrador, but a terrier on the outside.

39:40

I love that he chose one of the smallest dogs.

Sam Appleton 39:46

Yeah, I I always liked being told what to do. I've, you know, and really, you can attest to this if you you know if I'm not feeling good or if I've sick, and you tell me to have two days off training, I'm like, well, sweet. I don't feel bad about it. But. If I had to make that decision myself, I'd be, you know, I'd be losing sleep, I'd be having anxiety. But if someone tells me to have two days off a coach, then I'm like, sweet.

Tim Reed 40:10

And that's where the buy in is obviously, really important too, building the trust with the athletes so that they can not have that anxiety. And that was where you definitely, as soon as you told me I could be a world champion, you had my buy in, Matt,

Matt Dixon 40:25

but here's, here's the interesting thing about that, because I did tell you could be a world champion, there's no and it came true. But that's that, that like, what was it that made me say that and and you are a physically gifted athlete, and there's a shit ton of physically gifted athletes out there. The thing that you had, that I after we had built a little bit of a journey, is I felt like you had the mindset where you were willing to do what was necessary, and you came to me awake. I always forget you saying, I'm, you know, you're the only person that can coach me. As I started, I'm pretty uncoachable. I actually found you, and maybe it was just it was serendipitous that we work with each other. I found you really coachable. And I Paul, you remember Paul, the bike coach? I was like, This guy is has got what it is take to do, what is necessary to go on the journey. And as soon as you have that the mindset, and there's a physical gift, then the opportunity is there. And so I wanted to infuse belief. That's what I wanted to do. I wanted to get buy in and belief and and interestingly, while that was the journey, we didn't spend any time in the actual like, leading up to it saying, we're going to try and win. We're going to try and win. It was then all about maximize your performance. That's what you can control. The outcome happened to be what we talked about years before, sort of thing,

Sam Appleton 41:51

yeah, just shifting gears a little bit. I know I want to be cautious of your time, Matt, you've been very generous, but I think most of our listenership is likely, you know, full time workers that dabble in triathlon, and you've, you know now that I bring this up at the end of the podcast, and they've written a whole book on a time starved athlete. But if you had, you know, a couple of pillars for athletes that are time starved, that only have that, you know, eight to 10 hours a week to train. You know, like most people, like, I'm, I'm always in full admiration of people that work that 4050, hours a week and still, still manage to, you know, to go around the race course. Can you if you had, yeah, like brief, you know, pillars of what's areas of focus for those athletes that are time starved, you know, without rehashing your whole book, because you know, as much as you you know, having you read that book out would be quite nice. Can you can break it down, put you

Matt Dixon 42:59

guys to your early morning nap. So I'll say this. I think that there's a couple of principles that I think are really important, that the thing is that life is not a spreadsheet, and it is this living, breathing thing where every single week, you've got ebbs and flows of a whole bunch of massive compete demands, and therefore competing stresses. And the whole puzzle is, for any athlete that's time starved, is to integrate a training stress consistently into that recipe where the body can adapt and improve. And also, I would say, by the way, amplify how you sharpen the rest of life. So it should be additive, not a cage and a shackle. So one of the things that I never do with time starved athletes is have a fixed number of hours any given week that I want them to execute on. I start with a process every week, every athlete under the Purple Patch umbrella of what does the landscape of the week look like around life and so what have you got with family, kids, taking them to soccer, whatever it is. What have you got with work? What have you got with travel, etc? And then what are we looking to get accomplished? And you integrate training into the time left. So in any given week like, the average number of hours that a time starved athlete at Purple Patch might might train for an Iron Man is quite low, 10 to 12 hours a week, but it's an optimization challenge, and that doesn't mean they're doing 10 to 12 hours every week. They might sometimes do six really good hours. They might sometimes have the opportunity to do 14, but it's more of that mindset that I'm not looking I don't define successes of 10 hours every single week, I'm looking to build 200 hours over 20 weeks. And it's not even a fixed number. It's just more of a sort of an example to flow. And when you can do that, if the athlete, it therefore keeps the joy going. It therefore keeps the body healthy. It's a. To adapt to the training that you can do. That's number one. Number two is really making sure that you've got a couple of workouts a week that are flexible, that are your key workouts, two or three, that actually is very similar to a pro athlete. These are the ones that you're driving the performance needle, and the rest of them, where the flex happens in those hours is the more supportive ones that are important, good for resilience, cardiovascular conditioning, technique, whatever, but they're the ones that you can scale more so that you can weave that consistency and having the courage to go really easy. So another one of our sexy loop through polarized training. Goodness me, that's been around for years, but here we are. Yes, that's a really important part of it. And then, thirdly, finally, just a one sentence. One, if you don't have the capacity to do what we would all love to do, and is really beneficial, tons of hours at zone two training, but you just don't have life, and those hours constrict, you better get used to doing more high intensity. It's not the dream. It's not what you would do with a professional Ironman athlete, but if you're time starved, that's going to give you the stimulus. And so it's not hard every day, but it is a higher ratio relative of high intensity training. That's that's the approach that's really worked for us.

Tim Reed 46:18

Yes, sorry, I've got a weird feedback thing then, but yeah, I think, you know, even just the zone two fad, I always say, if someone's low on time, you know, they're gonna have to spend a lot more time at the top of Zone Two compared to the bottom of zone two to drive, you know, to drive the fitness gains with, with with the amount of time they've got to wrap it up, I guess firstly, just listening to your voice, are you the voice from the headspace app? By any chance?

Matt Dixon 46:50

I think is. I think his name's Simon. I get that all the time. His it's not me, actually. And that guy, I think, is immeasurably better looking than me as well. So he's got a slightly nicer English accent, and he's better looking. So we're gonna

Tim Reed 47:06

just say a huge thank you for coming on. You speak. Obviously, you're a great communicator. You speak really well. Make us all look like bloody idiots. So

47:19

we to be fair,

Tim Reed 47:23

I'll get APO and Clint. I'll just stay on for a bit longer. There's a couple more quick topics I want to run through, if you've got time. And then I'll have to get my final child to school. But Matt, you've been obviously from APO and I. And APO can probably say his own little thing. But like for my career, when I reflect easily the biggest influence on both how I coach and my athletic career, and in a time when I was very close to finishing up triathlon, you know, I think you came along at the right time for whatever reason, reasons that we've discussed, I always enjoyed triathlon under you. It was always I could get lost into my own pressure and training excessiveness and all that sort of things. And so, you know, as a I think I was actually going to write you an email, and had it on my list of to do things for about six months, and I thought it might be nicer to just say it in person over a podcast. So thank you for everything. Apo

48:21

now I have to follow that. Do I

48:27

true therapy session?

Sam Appleton 48:34

No, yeah, I, yeah. I agree with with Tim, yeah, we, I know I definitely owe a lot to you. And you know, the success that I've had throughout my trifle and career, a lot of it is because of you. And, yeah, just I think, you know, having having you in our corner, I think, well, I don't want to speak for Tim, but yeah, having you in my corner was, yeah, huge asset. And I think, like you said, you talked about that story in South Africa, and I do remember that because I think, I think about eight days before the race, I called you crying and saying, I'm pulling out. I'm not going, I don't want to fly 25 hours across the world. And I spoke to you for 30 minutes, and I spoke to Sarah after and I'm like, I'm going to fucking win this race next weekend. You just have a way with words. So yeah, thank you. Matt

Tim Reed 49:23

Quinn, what do you want to say,

Clint Rowlings 49:26

mate? I will say something. You must be an amazing, amazing human to be able to deal with these two, Matt and get them to the level they got to. So you, yeah, I have a massive amount of admiration just because of what I see with these two and how bloody well they went when they were under you. So thank you.

Matt Dixon 49:44

Enough of the emotional shit. We had a we had a lot of fun and and the coaches made by the athletes, that's all I'll say. And you guys were a great addition to Purple Patch. I got very, very lucky with who I got to coach and, and I tell you what this has been, the. Most fun I've had on on a podcast for a long time. So keep up the good work and and just on a personal it is terrific to see you guys. We haven't spoken for a long time. Just in typical blokes, we don't communicate too much, but next time we see each other in person, we'll, we'll have a, I don't know, we'll have something. We'll have a hug or something and a beer. But I'm not but I hope everything is great with the families as well. And I really appreciate you guys having me on. And best of luck to everyone racing this year as well. I just want to say that

Tim Reed 50:31

thanks, Matt. Appreciate

Matt Dixon 50:32

it. Guys. Get on. Take care. Guys. Thanks so much for joining, and thank you for listening. I hope that you enjoyed the new format. You can never miss an episode by simply subscribing. Head to the Purple Patch channel of YouTube, and you will find it there. And you could subscribe, of course, I'd like to ask you if you will subscribe. Also Share It With Your Friends, and it's really helpful if you leave a nice, positive review in the comments. Now, any questions that you have, let me know, feel free to add a comment, and I will try my best to respond and support you on your performance journey. And in fact, as we commence this video podcast experience, if you have any feedback at all, as mentioned earlier in the show, we would love your help in helping us to improve. Simply email us at info@purplepatchfitness.com or leave it in the comments of the show at the Purple Patch page, and we will get you dialed in. We'd love constructive feedback. We are in a growth mindset, as we like to call it, and so feel free to share with your friends. But as I said, Let's build this together. Let's make it something special. It's really fun. We're really trying hard to make it a special experience, and we want to welcome you into the Purple Patch community with that. I hope you have a great week. Stay healthy, have fun, keep smiling, doing whatever you do, take care.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Purple Patch podcast, athletic potential, triathlon therapy, Tim Reed, Sam Appleton, coaching philosophy, mindset, training methods, performance optimization, time-starved athletes, adaptability, resilience, high-intensity training, recovery, mental preparation

Carrie BarrettMay 13, 2025